check that math -

1,000x$10/month = 10,000/month = $120,000/year. a far cry from $1,200,000/year.

also, you would have to buy the land back from regency...not sure where that money would come from. and the cost to prep the property for what you are describing...management of it...insurance....

a great deal of cost/management. great idea...in theory. unless there is some person out there ready to pony up a huge chunk of $$$ it is not a real solution. kudos for the idea, for thinking outside the box but....i'd agree w/ pfrnd that it is not a real solution.

now...did i just open myself up for an attack? i don't think i was nasty or mean...just having a good dialogue here....not picking any fights w/ anyone!

quote:

Originally posted by Boopitydoobiedo:
Need to add that we are right smack dab in the middle of a world renowned area already famous for progressive ideas as they pertain to agriculture. Capitalize on that!!! Not some old school chain store that's going to go belly up and make Petaluma look just like Rodent Park.

Oh, and of course we could bring back the famous Muffin Catapult Toss & Shoot on Saturdays. PULL!

Out of the box? Yes.

Awesome concept that would make Petaluma proud? Yes.

Right location? I would have concerns as a consumer buying "organic produce" from soil that's been wedged between a freeway, a racetrack, and a school bus maintenance yard for 40+(?) years.

Sustainable Non-Big Box Non-Belly Up business model? I see tremendous acquisition costs, property taxes, delayed revenue generation (don't they have to certify the soil has been clear of chemicals for 3+ years... they've been fertizilizing those Little League fields a long time), ongoing testing/monitoring for organic certification, etc. Even minimal infrastructure to support 1000 patrons is expensive.

This thread is about new ideas for revenue so presumably revenue would exceeds costs so they stay in business. There's no sales tax on produce so I'd need more info on the revenue stream you see this project generating in other ways.

Who would tend the thousand plots? Petaluma families probably buy most of their produce in town already so the city wouldn't recapture significant $$ spent out of town. Would hundreds of out of town families be willing to drive 20 minutes +/- to tend their plot year round? More of a toll on our infrastructure without sales tax revenue to offset it seems problematic. I'm sure you've thought it through or you wouldn't have proposed it here so just let us in on your thinking.

I know out of site parking is a big priority of many that don't care for strip mall retail. How do you see that working for a project like this?

Would be a neat project if it could pencil out, but that seems tough.

Similar concept might have a better chance as part of a new master planned Fairgrounds site where there is already underutilized infrastructure in place.

What a bunch of idiotic crybabies! You are sitting here trying to figure out if you should build a Target...or build a Target. And then you ask for other ideas and just knock them down as they come in. Losers.

It took me all of 8 minutes to come up with that idea. You have been thinking about this stuff for years and all you can do is come up with...Target.

1. who/how does the trolley and all infrastructure get built/paid for? VERY expensive.

I realize this, and I don't have a business plan worked out, that's beyond my realm. But you could ask these guys: Link

2. This is actually quite comical...from someone who claims to support downtown merchants. as king01 states, downtown merchants would fight this tooth and nail. if you support downtown merchants you don't suggest meters. you suggest target would take away business...meters would as well!

I agree... sadly. The idea that a few quarters would make someone shop elsewhere with FREE PARKING makes me sick. I read all the time about people not wanting to pay for parking in Santa Rosa who don't realize the only reason they can actually find a spot is because of the meters. You can't get something for nothing, and I'd gladly pay an extra 50 cents to linger over ice cream at Lala's, wouldn't you? Especially since meters would make it more likely that I could park much closer. I'd also argue that merchants and employees and visitors who park all day on the Blvd. or Kentucky St. actually take away parking opportunities for additional shoppers who blow it off since they can't find a convenient spot, thus creating a loss of retail dollars. I already said it's unpopular, but I think people need to rethink this.

3. same as 1 above, who pays for all the improvements to get this done? where does the money come from to pay for this? and who manages it? who runs things? sets things up?

Ya got me. I'm merely being conceptual here, as I said. I don't have a business plan. But I'm sure some savvy vendors like the groups that organize farmers' markets could come up with something.

4. again, who pays for design/entitlements/impact fees/construction/management? and our city will now be in the development/hotel operation business?

That's the idea. SF and other cities do it. We had the money back when we demo'd the hotel. Now I guess it'd have to be a predominantly privatized venture.

good outside the box thinking but i don't think these suggestions are real world/possible solutions.

Why thank you Mr. Fiend. That's all I ever said they were. Dare to dream!

quote:

Originally posted by Boopitydoobiedo:
What a bunch of idiotic crybabies! You are sitting here trying to figure out if you should build a Target...or build a Target. And then you ask for other ideas and just knock them down as they come in. Losers.

It took me all of 8 minutes to come up with that idea. You have been thinking about this stuff for years and all you can do is come up with...Target.

And this surprises you...? Sorry Doob - the old guard has no new ideas.

Here’s my idea for the Kenilworth site: Petaluma Sports and Wellness Center.

Through tax incentives to a developers & tenants and by reaching out to the myriad of local businesses (fewer now) who make organic foods, natural beauty products and athletic apparel you build a mix use retail-office space and sports facility. Styled like an Olympic Village.

Make a permanent home for a bigger, longer and more frequent year round farmer’s market. Get the gym that is supposedly going to go into deer creek as a tenant. Build a mini-stadium with a tack (like Kezar in SF). Reach out to local businesses to move (or find new ones to open)- bike shop, golf shop, batting cages, etc. Companies like Athetica, Alba, Barbara’s & Annie’s are or used to be Petaluma based- see if you can encourage them to relocate; open their offices with a showroom.

Add a nice big park with a fitness trail, bike track & paths. Rebuild the Ped overpass as a bike ramp as well. Offer the facilities at a low fee for residents and a slightly higher fee for visitors. Make the fee nominal so as to not discourage most but just enough to keep it from becoming skanky.

The race track is already there- look at ways of expanding and improving and incorporating that (maybe garages for locals like the airport has.)

Incorporate the revamping of the swim center and the skate park.

Add meeting space and banquet facilites. Reach out to the JC and offer classes (at low rates) in nutrition.

Find a nice day spa tenant; a Yoga studio; Martial Arts school;

Encourage the tenants to be not just goods-service providers but also educational and show places.

Host weekly events and festivals.

It could be a draw for locals and out-of-towners.

If only we couldstill build a minor-league ball park too. (Stockton CA did- they had a team already- and it's actually quite nice. A's affilate plays there).

It may not match the revenue of a big box but it would be much more in keeping with Petaluma’s character.

In conjunction with the Fairgrounds property and the Swim Center, I could see this being a really cool idea. The fairgrounds has such tremendous potential as a convention center and this collection of activities would make Petaluma a great choice for businesses that support "bringing the family along". A hotel as part of the project might be important to make it a self contained destination. A reasonably priced option for corporate conventions.

An outlet store for Athleta would be awesome. Wonder if The Gap will grant our wish.

Some good stuff here Whippis.

and there you have it...it only took about an hour for the nasty, name calling to begin. why is it that there can't be an open, productive dialog without the name calling from some of you? i just don't get it. boob and tville throw ideas out there, people comment on it with no nastiness that i could see just respectful dialogue and these two fire back with name calling, nastiness, hateful responses. why is that? is it possible to have a respectful dialogue?

whip - great idea, i know i would certainly frequent that establishment. look here, me giving you a compliment after you ripped me, made fun of me and so on many months ago. wow, a respectful dialogue....imagine that!

my only thought would be to all of those that are concerned with taking business from downtown. you mention relocate...wouldn't that and other take from downtown? sure, maybe a little but would it bring business to downtown as more visitors may come...possibly. very similar hazard as what is currently being proposed.

quote:

Originally posted by Boopitydoobiedo:
What a bunch of idiotic crybabies! You are sitting here trying to figure out if you should build a Target...or build a Target. And then you ask for other ideas and just knock them down as they come in. Losers.

It took me all of 8 minutes to come up with that idea. You have been thinking about this stuff for years and all you can do is come up with...Target.

Idiotic crybabies? For taking 5 minutes to follow up on your 8 minute proposal? If you want to be taken seriously, put some serious thought into it Doobie.

I'm not for or against Target. I can't remember the last time I was in one. So my input has only to do with the merits of your proposal as I understand them.

There are certain people on here that liek to shoot people's ideas down and treat them like idiots. It is not surprising that the response in name calling. Come on people, try a little respect. So an idea isn't perfect, haven't you ever heard of brainstorming. The best ideas come from brainstorming and that is letting ideas flow and ponder them, rather than shooting them down asap. Maybe someof these ideas can be altered, combined, dont just try to dashthem off the table.

Whether it is outright disrespect or coded disrespect, it gets the same non-constructive negative reactions.

One thing I know is that if the only way to run a city is to sell it off to developers and corporations, then we have a faulty model and need to start rethinking now, not later.

quote:

Originally posted by dan h:
and there you have it...it only took about an hour for the nasty, name calling to begin. why is it that there can't be an open, productive dialog without the name calling from some of you? i just don't get it. boob and tville throw ideas out there, people comment on it with no nastiness that i could see just respectful dialogue and these two fire back with name calling, nastiness, hateful responses. why is that? is it possible to have a respectful dialogue?

whip - great idea, i know i would certainly frequent that establishment. look here, me giving you a compliment after you ripped me, made fun of me and so on many months ago. wow, a respectful dialogue....imagine that!

my only thought would be to all of those that are concerned with taking business from downtown. you mention relocate...wouldn't that and other take from downtown? sure, maybe a little but would it bring business to downtown as more visitors may come...possibly. very similar hazard as what is currently being proposed.

quote:

...whip - great idea, i know i would certainly frequent that establishment. look here, me giving you a compliment after you ripped me, made fun of me and so on many months ago. wow, a respectful dialogue....imagine that! ...

Now we're talkin'!

I had some of the same concerns about competing with or relocating businesses from downtown. But I still think it's worth exploring in earnest. Perhaps some of the retail/service businesses from downtown that might relocate would be replaced by a different type of retail... more art, homewares, furniture, etc as our local economy diversifies and strengthens again. Convention business would be such a boon. Gateway to the wine country, close to Infinion (can't deny the popularity even if, like me, you're not into racing), golf in every direction... Let's keep after this one.

I'm glad you guys like the idea for PSWC (pronounced P-Swack)- catchy. Now if you'll just send your investment checks and wires to my Cayman account I'll get the ball rolling.

Seriously, I think the risk to downtown is small. Given the size of downtown it can only support so much activity. The addition of a bike lane, a (free) shuttle and plenty of signage directing people to downtown could ease some fears. I think overall it would be a great thing.

If only the Kenniworth site had water access. Over by the visitor's center would be cool but that's not nearly big enough. Maybe over by the freeway where the old sewage plant is (but that would take too long) or where Deer Creek wants to be. But I like the Kenilworth site for this best.

Now what do we do?

quote:

Originally posted by whippis:
If only the Kenniworth site had water access. Over by the visitor's center would be cool but that's not nearly big enough. Maybe over by the freeway where the old sewage plant is (but that would take too long) or where Deer Creek wants to be. But I like the Kenilworth site for this best.

Now what do we do?

Ya know... the H20 ain't too far from the SW corner of the K'worth site. And it's even closer to the Fairgrounds. Lindberg, Payran, Caulfield across the someday to be redeveloped waste water treatment plant. Not that bad really. Espec if there were a hotel with shuttle service. Or bikes.

As for what do we do next... anyone care to share their experience in moving concepts to a next step?

Noticed that Dan didn't have one single idea. Just criticisms. Whadda havin for lunch Dan? Can you think of that without getting in your own way?

The problem here is that most of you have no training in progressive thinking. That's why you just lost the presidential election, you can't adjust your thinking, even if it would be in your own best interest.

Actually, my ideas are too good for this group of chit chatters, you'll get no more precious ideas from me. (But if the mayor is listening...there would be a lot of support for a community garden like I suggested.) If you are ever in Holland- take a look at the canal gardens with the small sheds that have been established there. One thing we do in Sonoma County very well, is that we grow some of the best produce in the world here. Celebrate that! like all the vineyards do with wine. Sonoma County agriculture is a gift and it is just plain old stupid to ignore it. OK that is my absolute last idea, unless you want to talk about jumbo muffins.

Community gardens are a great idea and should be zoned into every neighborhood. Not much of a revenue generator though- except as added to property taxes on each household that has access to one.