It's so easy to keep a few canvas bags in your car. Some stores are making an effort to cut down on paper or plastic. Trader Joe's has a weekly raffle if you bring your own bags. Safeway gives three cents back per bag. But G&G gives no incentives. I have mentioned it to them, but they seem unconcerned. Their plastic bags are extra-large and they do not offer a recycling bin for them. Please mention this when you shop there! P.S. The reusable green bags at Whole Foods are GREAT!

Safeway is selling nylon type bags for 99 cents. I've yet to try them but I think it's a great idea.

San Francisco and now Fairfax have banned plastic bags in large stores (grocery stores). Petaluma is next, and that is GOOD for the environment. Almost every grocery store now sells canvas or some other reusable bag. Just remember to bring them when you shop.

So lets presume for a minute that we all become wonderful green stewards of our environment. Lets presume that plastic grocery bags, as well as paper ones since we know that it is evil to harvest trees for paper products, go the way of the dodo. What then shall we put our trash in to take out to the garbage can? Is the green ideal for us to scoop a pile of refuse up in our hands off the counter top to carry it to the waste bucket? Or perhaps we could use one of those lovely canvas bags at a buck apiece for the task and use the same bag over and over again, filled with reeking trash and soaking the stench into the fibers so that the aroma will fill our kitchens and homes and we can rejoice that we are GREEN!!!

Reusable canvas bags... good idea for those who want that choice. I use them myself for planned trips to the store. However, when I just pop in on the way home to pick something up, I often get a paper sack or sometimes... << shudder >> a plastic one so I have something to collect and carry out my kitchen trash. So I guess that makes me evil. Oh well.

Those who understand that plastic and paper grocery sacks have more than one use are getting fewer and farther between these days. Cities that are banning the plastic sacks are making laws for the sake of making laws and are obviously being run by short sighted buffoons who care far more for style than they do for substance.

I should hope our city council is more concerned with the latter than they are the former.

Big Dog, what you do with your kitchen garbage is scoop it up off the counter any which way you like, this being America. What you don't do is put it in the trash and send it to the dump. What you do is put it in a container and carry it out to your composter or worm bin in the back yard, or porch, or patio. You keep a canvas or net bag in your car at all times, and if you forget, you bite the bullet and pay 99 cents to buy a new one. After a while, you've accumulated a bunch of extra bags, just like you used to accumulate plastic bags. Only now you take your extra bags to GoodWill and donate them so the poor people can buy them cheap, like for 5 cents. In this manner we all make the world go round.

Nice idea HM... other than the fact that composting is illegal inside the city limits. We wouldn't want to break the law now, would we?

While your trite, nay green, answer may make a certain amount of sense it completely misses the point. Not to mention the fact that not everything is compostable. There still is some level or amount waste that needs to be disposed of and I don't propose people having garbage piles in their backyards.

Well, I don't propose me having a garbage pile in my back yard. What you do with yours is up to you... unless of course you are over the back fence from me and the prevailing wind blows from your direction.

The point is that government intervention of the free market and personal choice, such as legislating grocery bags, regardless of how noble the cause might be is still a largely unnecessary intervention and a waste of both time and resources at several levels.

Ouch, Big Dog, you sure bite hard. Think you're all wet about composting being illegal. Find the ordiniance if you think it's true. Properly composted kitchen garbage doesn't stink, but this being America, you don't have to do it. You're probably too busy with lots of other noble causes. Of course not everything is compostible. That stuff goes in the grey bin. Here's hoping no government ever takes away your redblooded American right of choice to accumulate as many plastic bags as you care to leave lying around your house and yard. The good news is they'll last longer than the compost.

8.16.150 Accumulations of rubbish — Burial.
No person shall keep, accumulate or permit to be kept or accumulated any rubbish within the city except in suitable containers acceptable to the garbage collector and suitable for removal by him. Nothing herein shall prevent a person burning rubbish or disposing of rubbish in compost piles or hauling the same away from the city, dumping or causing the same to be dumped in any public rubbish dump to the extent permitted by laws, ordinances or regulations of this city. The burying of rubbish within the city limits is specifically prohibited. (Ord. 784 NCS §2: Ord. 173 NCS §24: prior code §13.16.)

Most cities expressly forbid composting, particularly of food waste, within the city limits. That was the basis of my original take. I had also previously been told the same by a source with the city. The ordinance quoted above from the Petaluma municipal code seems to indicate that one may compost, so I'll stand somewhat corrected. It does not say where they can compost. There is enough gray there for the issue to be very unclear. There is also the very next ordinance to be considered...

8.16.160 Container required.
No person shall keep, accumulate or permit to be kept or accumulated, any garbage, except in a container conforming with the provisions and requirements of this chapter. (Ord. 173 NCS §22: prior code §13.17.)

I'd still take up an inquiry with the code enforcement office before I started a compost pile with food waste in my backyard. From my own experience I know the difference between a properly composted pile and an improperly composted one. The latter can and does stink and attract vermin. If the neighbors complain I'd wager a city ordered cease and desist wouldn't be far behind.

I tend to bite when common sense goes out the window in favor of feeling good or looking good for the sake of feeling or looking good. I don't pursue "noble causes" and flailing me with a barb about a yard full of plastic bags is comical.

I do agree with you on one key point... I don't want government to take away any of my rights. Nor do I want them to take away any of yours.

Guess we agree more than disagree, but it's more fun to disagree, especially over something as inconsequential as composting. There are any number of things that fit into the gray zone, which are "ok" until someone complains. There are a large number of compost piles in this town, promoted by Park&Rec community gardens, Petaluma Bounty. Even the Mayor announced at a Council Meeting that she'd bought a compost container. The town is full of vermin even without composting. The government already regulates large segments of your/my behavior. Since we grew up with most of it, we take little notice of it. I doubt you're one of those fellows who can't stand any new rule at all, regardless of how beneficial it might be to the common good.

I'm one of those guys who lives by the rules, but who chafes when government makes more of them for no particularly good reason. Such as solving problems that are either non-existent or are beyond the reach of man's capacity to impact.

For what it's worth, I am all in favor of composting but would prefer it to be at one or two collector locations where it can be processed and put back out. The already existing refuse handling facilities come to mind, and they have composting programs in place. So when I look at it at risk (the people who don't know how to compost affecting their neighborhoods) versus reward (nice, rich soil to spread over this pitiful adobe) I'm inclined to go with the common good being at common locations.

Can't argue with that. Agree backyard composting has to be done right, not just to avoid vermin. If wrong it adds bad acids back to soil. The county composting of yard waste is a good program and for about 20 bucks you can buy a full yard of excellent yard compost at the dump. But Green Waste isn't doing anything about composting kitchen garbage and this would be logistically a harder thing to do on a massive scale, kitchen garbage would have to be collected nearly every day. There are people and groups in town who will help teach people the proper way to backyard compost, and if people are willing to slow down their lives a little and take the time, it could be a step forward.

I have noticed that this forum has the most posts under the plastic grocery bag section. I think it is interesting. It seems to be this way on a lot of other forums.

I am not trying to be deragatory to anyone but it seems to me that on a lot of message boards people are more concerned with the outward displays of their "greeness" and not so much about other areas of their lives.

Yes It makes a difference. If everyone starts using reusable canvas bags at the store landfill waste will be reduced a great deal. What about all the plastic packaging that we throw away on a daily basis. Almost everything is packaged in some sort of plastics these days. 90% of the trash generated from my home is plastic.

How about looking at ways to reduce plastic consumption all around. Actions like purchasing concentrated all natural cleaners reduce the number of plastic bottles that are going into our landfills and recycling centers. This means that if enough people start using these type of cleaners then there is less need for plastics. (when my family switched over to them we quit sending off over 100 bottles per year!)Check out http://www.moreinfo.com/9240340.56/VCL for a great line of All-Natural Cleaners!

Ever tried to purchase food items without plastic? Even stuff packaged in cardboard has some type of plastic providing a "hermetic" seal for freshness. Even classic old fashioned butcher paper is now plastic lined on one side to keep blood from seeping out and bacteria contained within. It does not mean that I do not look for or shop where they use more responsible plastics.

Yes I said more responsible plastics. They have plastics made from polymers derived from plants. Biodegradeable. The amazing Maize-everything from fueling your car to packaging your food. Unfortunately cost restrictions are keeping plant based plastics from taking off! For a great article on this go to http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Biodegrade/Green-PlasticsAug00.htm Stores like Whole foods are switching over to the use of bioplastics because they are the right thing to use. It is our jobs to support businesses that support green living in action!

Who knew SPAM on the forum could be green too?

Back to my original post. Every time I shop at G&G with my canvas bags, I ask them if they could give customers an incentive, such as two cents to five cents per bag. They don't, and they don't seem to care about the suggestion. They also have no recycling bin for plastic bags. How hard would these two options be???

Whole Foods is selling ChicoBags. They are fantastic. They weigh about an ounce and are integrated into a tiny stuff sack, which fits in the palm of your hand, about the size of a deck of cards. Fits in your pocket, purse or on your belt loop or keychain. Open: 20 lb. capacity to carry your groceries!
Price is about $2.99
Very hip!