St. Vincents High School is intending to put up stadium lights in a quiet,established west side residential neighborhood. Is this even legal? The remodel of Kiely Field (as per John Walker/ Principal)will ultimately preserve and enhance the charm and integrity of the neighborhood. What do you think?

quote:

Originally posted by localyocal:
St. Vincents High School is intending to put up stadium lights in a quiet,established west side residential neighborhood. Is this even legal? The remodel of Kiely Field (as per John Walker/ Principal)will ultimately preserve and enhance the charm and integrity of the neighborhood. What do you think?

Where does it say they are "intending" to put up lights?

Intending this year or 10 years from now or at some undefined time?

Need specifics to intelligently discuss this.

Piker,

Check with City planning on St. Vincents "intentions."

As to their timing, when ever will it be a good idea? Remember, Mc Nears Park had lights not so long ago. It was established that they needed to be placed elsewhere with less impact.

Lights were not included in this "grading" permit, but the conduit has been buried around the field. St. Vincent's powers that be felt it would slow down getting the project started and will be addressed later.

To inquire at St. Vincents, the contact person is Joanne Ferris 763-1032.

quote:

Originally posted by localyocal:
Check with City planning on St. Vincents "intentions."

Well, ... (1) this is a topic you started, so you need to bring forth your information ... it's not up to us to contact anyone to do your research for you; and (2) there is no planning department in Petaluma anymore.

Bottom line is, if you have specifics, then there is something to discuss; if not, a discussion of this topic is a waste of everyone's time. As the topic starter, it's up to you to provide the specifics (and if anyone else happens to want to do their own research, they obviously can.)

quote:

Originally posted by localyocal:
As to their timing, when ever will it be a good idea?

Again, if there is no specific proposal at this time, your concern is premature. Just a waste of our time to discuss a purely theoretical project with no specifics.

If you are saying that high schools should never have lights at their athletic fields, I do not think you will have many supporters. Petaluma HS and Casa Grande HS are surrounded by residential neighborhoods but have lighted fields. If you are saying there is something special about the neighborhood around St Vincent HS that distinguishes it from the neighborhoods around PHS or CGHS as far as athletic field lights go, then give us the specifics-- again, without specifics, there is no merit in having a discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by localyocal:
Lights were not included in this "grading" permit, but the conduit has been buried around the field.

Sounds like an intelligent way to go about it, if you ask me. Probably costs way less to lay conduit now, rather than pay 5 or 10 times as much later on and possibly have to dig up parts of the field, putting it out of service for a long time.

The City could learn alot about such an approach. Is the City laying conduit for future undergrounding of utilities on all its road reconstruction projects? I don't know, but I doubt it. The cost to lay conduit across a road, when you are reconstructing the road anyway, is a lot less than tearing up a road with a trench to lay that conduit at a future time-- not to mention the damage done to the road to dig the trenches. (No matter how well a trench is dug and fixed across a road, it is going to eventually wear down and the road will need maintenance and repair sooner.)

So even if the high school is just thinking about maybe putting up lights in the future, laying conduit now while the field is all torn up is the smart thing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by localyocal:
St. Vincent's powers that be felt it would slow down getting the project started and will be addressed later.

Same answer as above. If what you are saying is true, it sounds to me like the smart thing to do. Get the field itself done as soon as possible, rather than get bogged down in the City's red tape regarding field lights and possibly delay the field construction a year or more.

Also, did they have enough money to put the lights in also? If not, yet another good reason to lay conduit now but not do the actual electrical work-- could be a long time in this economy before they find the money to install lights.

I do have this to say to you as a general point: Adding lights to high school fields is a common issue around Sonoma County. For example, Maria Carrillo in Santa Rosa just went through this process about a year ago. If you are concerned about this possiblity in your neighborhood, you would do well to do your research about experiences with other high schools in other neighborhoods, in order to understand the specifics of such an issue as well as the possible outcomes.

"Bottom line is, if you have specifics, then there is something to discuss; if not, a discussion of this topic is a waste of everyone's time. As the topic starter, it's up to you to provide the specifics (and if anyone else happens to want to do their own research, they obviously can.)"

Hey piker! Who made you king of the discussion boards and maker of the rules of engagement here?

A person does not need to have all that information to ask a question here. It is not a waste of anyone's time to post ANY query. If I had any specifics to add that would help "localy", I surely would with no hesitation. This person has a concern and questions and that is why they posted a query here. Perhaps they saw the success I had by posting about the illegal tools sign here that brought results.

I have to add that for someone who thinks this topic is a waste of time...you sure had a lot to write about it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Boopitydoobiedo:
I have to add that for someone who thinks this topic is a waste of time...you sure had a lot to write about it!!!

It is hilarious that you made this point, as I had a very strong premonition that someone would, and that the person would be you.

My relatively verbose response to the original poster's comments is just that-- "relatively" verbose as compared to a typical Petaluma360 post. However, it did not take me much longer to compose than a shorter post would have taken me, and I felt there were some general points were worthy of making (including the general point that more specifics were needed), especially because this is evidently the first time the original poster has used Petaluma360's forums.

The point remains that a productive discussion cannot be had regarding lights proposed at any high school-- or regarding any other type of project, for that matter-- unless there are some specifics to discuss. The best anyone can do is speculate, and speculation-- in the sense I use that word here-- is not productive.

Nor is such a discussion timely-- if lights are years off in a school's plan, the time to have a discussion about them is years from now, when the school has shown they have more than a vague plan, but also the resources, the impetus and the details that could coalesce into an actual project.

While there may be a select few (such as yourself, Boop-Townsville) who like to rant on about the mere general possibility of something happening in the future, without any specifics having been identified, an intelligent approach to any issue such as this one requires details.

The fact that conduit is being laid is interesting, and I found it interesting enough to comment on the merits of doing so and the purpose behind it, but as far as it being important to the issue of lights (which is obviously the original poster's real concern), the presence of conduit, invisible once it is buried, really has no bearing on how lights would affect the neighborhood.

It is also amusing that you decided to post a comment here although you have no apparent interest in the topic itself; your only apparent interest is the fact that I have posted, which gives you an opportunity to take issue with what I write. (Should I be flattered or frightened?)

Do you even know what you are writing about at this point? The only reason that I ask it that it is doubtful that anyone else does. What you wrote reads more like a manifesto rather than a coherent reply to the original poster's concerns.
I can now see why you need specifics to follow along because what you wrote lacks coherency.

Again, if the topic starter wants to ask anything in the world, they can do that without the need for specifics.

quote:

Originally posted by Boopitydoobiedo:
Do you even know what you are writing about at this point? The only reason that I ask it that it is doubtful that anyone else does. What you wrote reads more like a manifesto rather than a coherent reply to the original poster's concerns.

I can now see why you need specifics to follow along because what you wrote lacks coherency.

Again, if the topic starter wants to ask anything in the world, they can do that without the need for specifics.

Of course anyone can ask anything, but whether the question is productive or merely a waste of time depends on specifics.

As to coherency, your posts consistently demonstrate that you would not recognize it if you were staring it in the face.

And if that's your definition of a manifesto, you really need to be reading more than you evidently do.

Move along, your trolling can be better appreciated elsewhere, Brian.

Hi Brian Piker- why would you spend, what, an hour, writing two full page posts about a subject where no specifics are given and are a waste of your time? The more you write, the more confused you sound. Is Brian your real name?

Okay people, it is my first posting, forgive me for not knowing your rules. Back to the topic.

Question #1 Is this even legal?

PHS and Casa have lighted fields and I am in support of giving kids places to play. BUT St. Vincents is not a public school with public access to their grounds. PHS and Casa are. They also have large property boundaries and city streets to seperate them from the surrounding neighborhoods. St. Vincent does not.

Piker, I did supply you with the facts, I merely gave you the resources that I used to discover their intentions. These things should have been public knowledge and yet no one even knew about the remodel until it was printed in the Argus. Why so secretive if you are not trying to sneak something in that should not belong?

Laying the conduit now is surely cost effective IF you intend to slip something by on everyone. Again, what are the legalities of putting lights up where they will be privately used and intrusive to the residentially zoned neighborhood? It seems a little commercial to me. Especially if they plan to generate income by renting out their facilities. (Which by the way is a likely part of their subterfuge)

Hey NIMBY,
Was the high school there when you bought your property? Did it have an athletic field? Did you attend any of the publicly noticed meetings where the high school presented its plans? What difference does it make whether it is a public or private high school? Casa and PHS are both in residential neighborhoods and have lights. This is Petaluma Nimbyism at its best.

my question back to localyocal would be has he/she spoken to both the city and the school? before he/she throws out claims of "sneaking", "slip something by" "likely part of their subterfuge", etc., he/she should talk to both parties and get the facts. he/she is doing more than simply asking questions.......he/she is suggesting wrong doing without doing proper research. sure, it is okay to ask questions but maybe hold back on the claims until more is known.

Rosie the playing field is not in question, they have expanded it as they saw fit .I am concerned about the lights not the field nor the high school sports played on them.

There were no publically noted meetings except to discuss the demolition of a house that may or may not have had heritage value. They would not entertain any other topics.

Public schools are used by the general public and the community bears the burden of the expenses, benefits and the impact. The private school impacts the general public while it serves only its private members. These members may or may not be part of this community.

I repeat myself here, but the property around St. Vincents does not allow any buffer for the impact of the lights. They would be within a few feet of adjacent properties. Many of which have stood here prior to 1962, when they built the school. Why after all these years do they need lights?

ptlma frnd,
I have spoke with both parties. The city has informed me that St. Vincents plans to put up lights. I am not certain of their timimg, nor is the city. This is why I am addressing this forum.
It is a FACT that St Vincents did nothing to notify the neighborhood of there intentions. I began correspondece with them upon reading it in the Argus.
One day they are receiving generous, anonomous donations, the next they have an engineered plan into the city, then they write some glossy article with its colorful rendering.
Never once addressing the neighbors.
As to suggesting any wrong doing, that is what I am hoping to avoid by speaking out now.

you are hoping to avoid suggesting any wrong doing? OR are you hoping to avoid wrong doing? you are, very clearly, suggesting wrong doings...mischeiveous and hidden actions and agendas. i don't think i'm stretching here when i say that the school is doing everything that is required of them to do. if they were not the city would know nothing or would be able to enforce any infractions for wrong doings. you may want them to do more than what is required for them to do by city code and/or ordinance but they are under no obligation to do so.

what type of wrong doing are they guilty of? If they go through the city, obtain all the proper permits and follow all necessary codes i don't see the wrong doing other than maybe not being as good as a neighbor as you would like them to be. it may be unfortunate but it isn't against any laws as far as i know.

Notice how there was no response to my question about whether the school and playing field were there when localyocals' house was purchased? Do you really think the lights are going to be on all night, every night? Will you even still live there when they actually raise the money to put in the lights? Here's how it works. In order for the school to put in lights, they will have to go through the planning commission and City Council and the project will be subject to public notice requirements to the neighbors. At that point, neighbors both for and against the project will have an opportunity to be heard and it is likely the school will be required to take steps to mitigate the inconvenience to the neighbors. Examples of mitigation measures that have been applied with respect to other schools include provisions that the lights be turned off by a certain time or used only on certain days of the week. Only after all that occurs, will the school be granted a permit for light installation. Finally, do you really think that with the lack of sufficient playing space for soccer, lacrosse and football in Petaluma that the field will only serve the students at St. Vincent's High School? The field will be utilized by youth lacrosse and soccer players just like the ones at Casa and PHS. So your statement that the private school impacts the general public while it only serves its private members is totally baseless and only serves to reveal some sort of bias on your part against either private schools or at least private schools in your neighborhood. If you don't wish to be disturbed by your neighbors, then you should perhaps move to the country. Although, then you would probably complain about the smell of the cows!