RE: Link
God bless both sides of the issue and God bless America.
OK people... Let's be nice. - JM!

I second the motion by Petaluma Pete. However, I am not putting any money behind it ;-)

Sooner or later, we have to make a decision.
I prefer to make my decision myself, and not let Government to take over me and decide for me. I send this question to Rep. Lynn Woolsey, and, I think, I am not along who is looking for the answer.
Where can I find a published proposal of new health care plan for America?
I tried many different links, but I cannot find published health care reform.
I would like to read it myself, all pages of it.
I do not want to hear from one side how good, and perfect, and non-expensive it will be for us.
And, I don't want to hear from other side how controlling, and expensive, and no-care it will be for us.
I would like to read it from the beginning to the end by myself and make my own opinion.
Being low-middle class American, I know that this reform will be
paid by my taxes, my labor, my time, my health.
I know that government will not pay for my health care, because government is not making any money.
It exists on money that Americans paying in form of tax to the government to serve American people.
I know that "richest" people will not pay for my health care (as most of
the congress members say), because "richest" people always find the "loop".
I will pay for it.
Therefore, I want to know what is going to be on my shoulders.
I want to make a decision whether I want to put it on my shoulders or not.
So, where can I find it, full and complete proposal of a new health care system in America?

LC asks a fair question. Part of the problem is that there is no single proposal. As I understand it, there are at least five different bills in Congress.

Until the process produces a single bill that can be read, LC and the rest of us will have to endure listening to arguments based on slogans.

Isn't the issue "really" about insurance?

The cries I hear are that people and business either can't affford current insurance rates or that they are denied coverage with little or no alternative.

If that's the case, what is being proposed to fix that?

In the proposal the government offers a low-cost alternative. Who loses on that - well the insurance companies for one since most people would be attracted to a lower premium for the same coverage. So is this about the "state" health care (which is another topic altogether) or providing medical insurance coverage for low-income people and struggling businesses?

And why do folks persist in politicizing the issue? This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue. This is about providing coverage regardless of party affiliation.

Also, how do we pay for it? Well how did we pay for the wars? Iraq cost us 20-30 billion a month. Afghanistan I don't even know. Wouldn't even half that money cover this?

Just wondering.

Hey LC, you are one of the few who actually want to or have read the bill. Too many people are just listening to what the politicians tell them and they believe it. It would be like going to a used car lot and asking if the car runs good and gets great fuel economy. Of course they will say yes it runs great and get fantastic fuel economy. I have read this document and it is horrible. Read it and by page 429 you will need a bucket because you will have an uncontrollable urge to puke.

Link

There is the link to HR3200.

When you have read it you'll ask others to stop telling you how great it is until they read it.

Some of my favorite parts:
Pg 16: SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. lines 3-26 of the HC Bill – OUTLAWS PRIVATE INSURANCE by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

Pg 30: SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

This one is never talked about!
Pg 59: SEC. 163. ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLIFICATIONHC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have DIRECT access to your BANK ACCOUNTS for electronic funds transfer. This means the government can go in and take your money right out of your bank account.

PG 425: SEC. 1233 This whole section is what made me puke. I won't use the term used by others but I will say they were dead on. Read it and tell me what it is going to be. pages 425 through 430 should make you raging mad that you have been lied to and all of those people who think they will be covered even though they have an existing illness are in for a rude awakening. Also say good bye to anyone with a long tern illness and if they are older say your good byes now.

Once you read this document you will understand why it was so hard to find. Please pass it along so others may know what the liberals are doing to this country.

Thanks JB for this link. I will respond after a month long of reading all of this and then reading it again.. WOW. I need to find a faster printer before I die. TTUL.

PTOWNKIDSTAXI, you are welcome. Pass it along. I have just been reading the pdf since it's 1700 pages. Here is the site I found it on. Some other good info there as well.

Link

JB

I am a disabled American taxpayer, whose long-term private disability was terminated by the Hartford insurance company (recipient of $17 billion in taxpayer bailout.) Thanks to a government program called Social Security, I now have disability coverage and health insurance, and I now make my own healthcare decisions - not the insurance companies. My father, a veteran of World War 2, Korea and Vietnam, was covered by another government program called the Veterans Administration. Don't listen to the insurance companies, Rush Limbaugh and the right wing kooks: we can have health coverage for everyone without increasing the Bush-Cheney deficit - it will lower healthcare costs, provide all Americans the coverage enjoyed by Congress and our military and retired, and it won't kill Grandma or drive insurance companies out of business. Yes, we can do this - together! (Divided we fall.)

Well it is a serious issue and one thing is clear the current way of doing things is not working well. The comment of give the free market a chance to fix it is ridiculous. The free market created the problem it has had decades to fix it how much more time does it need?

I know my health plan from work keeps getting more expensive each year and covers less and less with higher deductibles and co-pays. If I lost my job there is no way I could afford private health insurance. People with serious or Chronic health problems like Diabetes, MS, Parkinson’s etc who need Insurance most are turned down for it. The system is broken. I have not read the multiple versions of the bill with the 2 billion pages (Exaggeration) so I can't say it is better or not yet but as Marc said currently Military and Government officials are covered by a Government run Healthcare plan and I have heard excellent things about it.

Seems to be a lot of dumb in the room regarding this issue and it's coming from obvious sources.

Corporate republicans have been waging a disinformation (outright lying to seniors and the slow and dumb)campaign on this issue. It is partially succeeding because their intended audience is confused and scares easily. We really are seeing the true republican fringe element coming to the forefront aren't we? The blonde gal...what a treat. Everyone thinks they are auditioning for a reality show. I just find it appalling that these republican zombies are dumb enough to vote against their own self interests.

Panel Guest: "Miss, you will save 37% under the new system."

Dumb Blonde Gal: "But it's got, you know...Obama, an he's a Muslim cause he was born in foreign, like Hawaii, and everyone knows Hawaii is an island of Kenya. Obamacare is from the Devil."

Here is the kicker, what kind of republican would sit there and make up lies to fool your grandparents? How can you republicans support people in your party that lie like that? Win at any cost? It's been shown that it badly backfires. You just LOST the presidency and you are acting like even worse morons than you did during the elections. The republican moral compass is in the toilet.

Also wanted to add that the live online poll was For health care 64%
...and Against 36%
when I checked here last nite. What did it end up at?

A simple question, why are you blaming the idiot Republicans? The Democrats have a veto proof Senate, control of the House and the Presidency. As you said, the Republicans lost the last election. So what's the problem? Surely our Democrat elected officials aren't afraid of some load mouth idiots at meetings to sway their votes, are they?

If the republican moral compass is in the toilet, then for gosh sakes do something about it. You have control of everything. Could it possibly be that the Republicans aren't the problem, it is the majority party that can't agree what they want, who to cover and how to pay for it?

One last point, I'm registered Independent and vote for the person, not the party.

You are missing the point 5th. The democrats would love nothing more than to have a calm, rational discourse at these town hall meetings to get a consensus from both sides of the fence over such an important issue. The rabid corporate republicans that are enabling the Glen Becks, the Rush Limbaughs and Bill O'Rileys of the airwaves that are telling listeners to go and disrupt these meetings are what is at fault here. The people that follow these programs are literally too dumb to connect the dots to realize that they are being manipulated. They are being moved around like doomed chess pieces in a winless game by the monied interests in this country. In this particular case it is the insurance companies that are financially backing the republicans. That is my reference point by saying there is a lot of dumb in the room over this. Not just here, but all across America, A lot of dumb in the room.

What Obama is trying to do is to take some of the good, I actually said good, republican ideas and incorporate them into the change. But the repubs are using that opening as a weapon against the entire process. They are taking on the role of obstructionists, being against everything that Obama is trying to do for the good of the country.

I have never been so embarrassed and sickened by the behavior of the republican party. They are bringing shame to the country, not to mention their constant push to make Obama look bad in the eyes of the world (which is not working-the WORLD LOVES OBAMA!!!). This is OUR country and NOT the republican's country.